Western Regional Night - 22 Jan

[Stephen Zedalis]

While clicking around the websites of the other Western Regional ARTCC's, I got on the Denver Events calendar and noticed that Thursday 22 January Western Regional Night was assigned to ZOA! I did not see any mention of this on our events calendar (it did have a generic regional night entry).

I tried to create a topic for it on the Events forum, but of course did not have permission to add a new topic.

Recommendation: A permanently pinned topic should be on the Events Forum to cover the weekly Western Regional Nights.

So... I plan to try to attend tonight. Anyone else? Shouldn't we be doing controller signups for the positions?

Come on guys, fresh student meat on the scopes!

[Keith Smith]

I'll be on tonight, for some period of time.

[ZOA.Rich]

I'll be here tonight. :-) Can't wait.

And Stephen, welcome to our home!

[feathers]

I don't wanna rain on anyone's parade here, but do I remember correctly in seeing somewhere on these forums that the regional nights were shifting to Thursdays? Or has that not gone into effect yet?

James

[Doug Pullen]

Yes, its on Thursdays now. We are short a events coordinator and thats probably why it wasnt shown on our events page.

[Keith Smith]

Last night was a blast. I plugged into SJC to find 5 SWA planes (in various states of readyness), waiting to go to Reno.

I haven't set up any aliases yet, so the fingers were flying for the next 30 minutes or so.

It was a great experience, and I was left thinking about it until I went to sleep (I know other controllers have reported similar experiences).

Thanks to Danny for handling the flood of departures I sent his way, I'm looking forward to the next event, I hope I can be there for a bit longer next time.

[Dan Sprouse]

Hi Keith it was fun working last evening with all of you and the traffic was the best Ive see here for a while.

Here is an alias you are welcome to use or you can create your own to save the fingers.

.sid Cleared to $arr via $1 Dep $2 Trans, c/m $temp expect FL $cruise in 10 min., Departure with $radioname($3) on $freq($3), Squawk $squawk

Prior to sending this you need to addign the original clime temp altitued to the aircraft (F8 5000) then assign the Sq Code (F9 ACEL)
If there is a controller on working the departure you will enter his CL id if now leave it blank and your freq will be entered.
Now your set to issue the clearance like.

.sid loupe1 lin 20

The above would send the following to the ac.

AC124 Cleared to KSLC via Loupe1 Dep Lin Trans, c/m 5000 expect FL230 in 10 min., Departure with Oakland Center on 132.20, Sq 4323

Hope this helps.

After you have sent him the clearance you can remove the temp altitude you assign by hitting the F8 and acel this will allow the final cruse altitued to show for the receiving controller.

[Keith Smith]

Fantastic, thanks for the alias, Danny.

Your point about the tower assigning temp altitudes brings up the question I was trying to ask you last night (but it got too busy to get into detail). I managed to ask Rob the question later during the session.

Rob said that since tower was a non-radar facility, they shouldn't assign temp altitudes. At the time, that made sense to me, too.

As I think about it, though, just because the tower is non-radar, that doesn't mean they can't alter flight plans, assign squawks, or assign temp altitudes. They just don't have a radar :)

I will get this (and other) aliases implemented and provide faster service next time I'm controlling.

My next goal is to utilize more than one departure runway when the traffic is stacked up. Last night, I was just fighting for my life, though :) I'll study the facility chart and work out how to route traffic to 30L and 30R during heavy periods of activity.

I realize I need to leave 1 mile sep (about half the length of the runway) between takeoffs, if memory serves.

Keith

[Dan Sprouse]

Keith Yes you can assign and have to assign a release altitude to IFR traffic departing as part of your clearance to them. thus the climb and maintain 5000 expect XXX in 10.

The thing is if your do it using text and the f8 function you should remove it from their FP as soon as you issue the Clearance so that Departure will see the Cruse altitude not a Temp altitude. This will make his work harder and he will soon be yelling at you.

:ph34r:


you could also do the following for the alias then you would not have to enter the 5000 altitude it would already be there only dont use it for Reno hehe.

.sid Cleared to $arr via $1 Dep $2 Trans, c/m 5000 expect FL $cruise in 10 min., Departure with $radioname($3) on $freq($3), Squawk $squawk

[Keith Smith]

The thing is if your do it using text and the f8 function you should remove it from their FP as soon as you issue the Clearance so that Departure will see the Cruse altitude not a Temp altitude. This will make his work harder and he will soon be yelling at you.

And that's where you lost me. I didn't think assigning the temp altitude (via F8) would obscure the final cruise altitude from the controller. Wouldn't it still be in the FP? If my memory serves, that's how the ASRC manual recommends the temp altitude feature be used.

I thought TWR would set the temp altitude, let them take off, hand off (verbally) to DEP, who would remove the temp alt restriction, then verbally clear them to their final altitude.

It sounds like I'm missing something, though. Please fill me in, I don't wanna mess this up.

[Dan Sprouse]

You only want to assign a temp altitude and leave it in the FP if it is out of the norm for the departure or decent into an area and the next controller needs to know about it.

IE Im approach and I clear a departure to 10K because of traffic and he is leaving my airspace Id leave it in for the Ctr to know he is being held at 10K not 15K as per the SOP.

Same for you if you clear him for 5000 that is part of the SOP but if for some reason you cleared him to 2000 then I as App would need to know that. to keep him form flying into something thinking he was going to climb to 5000.

[Keith Smith]

At first I didn't get it, but I read it 3 times and then got it. Thank you!

[ielchitz]

I've found these entries in my alias file to be an AMAZING resource for handling text clearances. You can of course ammend the standard alias to use the default climb altitude that you use in ZOA (mine originally was 5000 for ZOA).

If anyone is interested in my full alias file send me an email and I'll drop it in your inbox.

The alias picks up the Destination, Cruise, and Squawk directly from the flight strip, so you have to make sure you have assigned a code and ammended a proper cruise altitude before running the alias.

For the departure frequency you enter the TWO DIGIT CL for the responsible radar controller on departure or leave it blank and it will show your frequency for departure.

v - used for departures that require vectors.
rv - used for runway heading and vectors to a fix.
d - used to have a DIRECT fix to rejoin the original route.
a - used to assign a different initial cruise.

For example with the strip

ACA301 KSFO AVE.SADDE6 KLAX FL330 1005

and OAK_CTR up as 30

.clnc PORTE3 AVE
Cleared to KSFO via the PORTE3 DP, AVE transition then as filed. Maintain 3000 expect FL330 10 mins after, departure frequency on (my frequency) squawk 1005

.clncrvd WAGES AVE 30
Cleared to KSFO via fly runway heading, vectors to WAGES direct AVE then as filed. Maintain 3000 expect FL330 10 mins after, departure frequency on 132.20 squawk 1005

I think you get the idea.

Ian.

IFR Clearances
---------------

.clnc cleared to $arr via the $1 departure $2 transition then as filed, c/m 3000, expect $cruise 10 mins after dep, dep freq. $freq($3), squawk $squawk
.clncv cleared to $arr via the $1 departure, vectors to $2 then as filed, c/m 3000, expect $cruise 10 mins after dep, dep freq. $freq($3), squawk $squawk
.clncrv Cleared to $arr via fly runway hdg radar vectors to $1 then as filed. c/m 3000, exp $cruise 10 mins after dep, Dep Freq. $freq($2), squawk $squawk

.clncd cleared to $arr via the $1 departure $2 transition direct $3 then as filed, c/m 3000, expect $cruise 10 mins after dep, dep freq. $freq($4), squawk $squawk
.clncdv cleared to $arr via the $1 departure, vectors to $2 direct $3 then as filed, c/m 3000, expect $cruise 10 mins after dep, dep freq. $freq($4), squawk $squawk
.clncrvd Cleared to $arr via runway hdg vectors to $1, direct $2 then as filed. c/m 3000, exp $cruise 10 mins after dep, Dep Freq. $freq($3), squawk $squawk

.clnca cleared to $arr via the $1 departure $2 transition then as filed, c/m $3, expect $cruise 10 mins after dep, dep freq. $freq($4), squawk $squawk
.clncva cleared to $arr via the $1 departure, vectors to $2 then as filed, c/m $3, expect $cruise 10 mins after dep, dep freq. $freq($4), squawk $squawk
.clncrva Cleared to $arr via fly runway hdg radar vectors to $1 then as filed. c/m $2, exp $cruise 10 mins after dep, Dep Freq. $freq($3), squawk $squawk

.clncda cleared to $arr via the $1 departure $2 transition direct $3 then as filed, c/m $4, expect $cruise 10 mins after dep, dep freq. $freq($5), squawk $squawk
.clncvda cleared to $arr via the $1 departure, vectors to $2 direct $3 then as filed, c/m $4, expect $cruise 10 mins after dep, dep freq. $freq($5), squawk $squawk
.clncrvda Cleared to $arr via runway hdg vectors to $1, direct $2 then as filed. c/m $3, exp $cruise 10 mins after dep, Dep Freq. $freq($4), squawk $squawk

[feathers]

Originally posted by Dan Sprouse@Jan 23 2004, 11:29 AM
you could also do the following for the alias then you would not have to enter the 5000 altitude it would already be there only dont use it for Reno hehe.

.sid Cleared to $arr via $1 Dep $2 Trans, c/m 5000 expect FL $cruise in 10 min., Departure with $radioname($3) on $freq($3), Squawk $squawk
Dan brings up a good point in his last line... I personally would be careful of making the 5000' inital climb a bulit-in... not only for Reno, but if memory serves most of the standard DPs out of KOAK are 2000' inital climbs to keep them out of the way of KSFO departures. I used to assign everyone in the bay 5000' inital climbs, but then I found out that was not correct. Check the DP charts if you can while you're putting together the clearance and look for that first altitiude on the vectors from the airport.

Personally, I think clearance is one of the spots I enjoy the most. Not because I don't have to push any actual tin (what fun is that?) but because the puzzle-solver and troubleshooter in me likes to piece the stuff together and check it out.

Oh yeah: Keith read over the ASRC documentation about amending flight-plans (if you haven't already). I think most pilots I've delt with are more than happy to let me switch a few things in their plan rather than them having to re-file the whole thing. It's always fun to catch one by surprise and you can tell they appriciate you being able to just swap FL370 for FL350... And don't sweat when you blow it the first time. I think the first plan I tried to amend, I wiped out the whole route! I had to crawl back on frequency, apologize and ask the pilot to re-file... ^_^

And not like I'm any kind of hotshot or anything, but I'd just worry a little about the aliases. They're invaluable, no doubt and definite timesavers but when you graduate to voice (and I'm sure you will in no time flat) there are no vocal aliases! You'll have to know how to deliver the clearances. But I'm sure you have the advantage over me with your real and simulated pilot experience: You've heard it all a hundred times before.

Granted, I'm a complete computer geek and can type around 80 words a minute, so knocking out clearances 'longhand' was never an issue for me. ^_~

James

[ielchitz]

James,

The initial altitudes to be assigned for most of the fields in ZOA are listed in SOP 050.

I see your point about the alias - but the good thing about them is that if you use one with proper phraseology - you will eventually just think about that alias when moving to voice.

Consistency of phraseology is one of the greatest tools you can learn while climbing the ladder and serves as one of the major foundations of controlling. When you get busy you don't have time to think about HOW to say something - you just plug the numbers into the same phrase you use over and over and over again.

It's been my experience that the controllers who stray from standard phraseology or are inconsistent in how they deliver the same information struggle as traffic and complexity builds up. While you are still learning the DEL/GND/TWR side of things work hard to get it right and don't rush to work a radar position. If you don't have perfect phraseology when you start working on approach you WILL struggle.

I guess my point is that the ALIAS file allows people to see the proper phraseology over and over again.