Man, DST is painful...

[Reece Hunter]

My body is telling me it is only 2300H so it is not ready for bed. Here I am walking the hallways of the ZOA Forum trying to increase my post-count.

The SFO8 DP is a vectored DP. My chart says that pilots fly a heading of 030 on departure or any heading assigned by ATC. Having said that, what do you guys think is the other way to deliver the clearance to a pilot on this SID?

The one we are familiar with for any vectored DP, such as the SFO8, is:

AAL649, cleared to Reno via runway hdg, radar vectors to SAC then as filed...

What about if you want the pilot to depart on a heading of 030 as depicted on the chart to keep him out of OAK departure stream? What is the proper phraseology? I, specially, want to hear from our students.

[Keith Smith]

If they're flying the SID, I would say:
"AAL649 cleared to xyz via the SFO8 dep, vectors SAC, then as filed.."

I would then expect them to fly hdg 030 on departure, as published.

If they're NOT flying the SID, I would say:
"AAL649 cleared to xyz via fly hdg 030, vectors SAC, then as filed..."

Keith

[feathers]

Originally posted by keith@Apr 6 2004, 09:13 AM
If they're flying the SID, I would say:
"AAL649 cleared to xyz via the SFO8 dep, vectors SAC, then as filed.."

I would then expect them to fly hdg 030 on departure, as published.

If they're NOT flying the SID, I would say:
"AAL649 cleared to xyz via fly hdg 030, vectors SAC, then as filed..."
That sounds good to me... it says there right in black and white "Climb via heading 030 or as assigned for vector to assigned route/fix". Also shows you need to be above 3000 by the 6 DME arc (although that isn't noted in the text description) to clear the KOAK departures.

Except as the SKYL3 has taught me, you can't trust pilots on VATSIM to fly a DP properly, even when it's all spelled out in the text description. *sigh* So that above paragraph not only assumes that the pilot off of 1 is properly flying the SFO8, but that the guys launching off of 29 on the SKYL3 are going to stop at 2500 until 4 DME.

I suppose if I really wanted to cover myself, I'd say:

"Southwest 123, cleared to Salt Lake. After takeoff fly heading 030, expect vectors to Linden, then as filed. Climb and maintain 3000 by 6 DME, then to 5000, expect flight level 330 ten minutes after." etc etc etc.

If it was someone I trusted, I might slim it down a little:

"Delta 2877, cleared to Salt Lake via the San Francisco 8 departure, vectors to Linden, then as filed. Climb and maintain 3000 by 6 DME, then to 5000, expect flight level 330 ten minutes after." etc etc etc.

If it was someone I knew was really on their game, I would just give it:

"Cal Air 2600, cleared to Salt Lake via the San Francisco 8 departure, vectors to Linden, then as filed. Climb and maintain 5000, expect flight level 330 ten minutes after." etc etc etc.

I dunno... realism versus safety, I suppose. And trust? Hell, if everyone was on their game, we could just issue them a full approach when they were a hundred miles out and do nothing but hand them altitudes until the FAF, right?

So tell me: Why do us ATC nuts have to go though such a grueling process here, but anyone who can afford MSFS and download a copy of Squawkbox can get into our skies and wreak havoc? Where's the pilot training for VATSIM, eh? ^_^

James